How to become a surveyor and challenges they face in training. Peta @surveygeekgirl is the National Training & Development Manager @surveyorsacademy

How much do they make? What is the job market like? What do you ACTUALLY do every day?

After years of being a surveyor & educator, Peta is now working with an organization called Association of Consulting Surveyors National to begin training the workforce through the Surveyors Academy. She has been employed as the training & development manager and educator to help bridge the gap in industry needs and education for new entrants & existing unqualified surveyors.

Peta is also very active on social media. She uses the platform to bring attention to important causes such as mental health & wellbeing whilst not taking life too seriously by always posting hilarious reels and quotes to get you through the work week.

Welcome to season 3 of the podcast were we talk about all types of careers that make up Who is Women in Construction.

Links
Peta Survey Geek Girl Instagram
Surveyors Academy Website
Social Media Doin'GirlyThings

Transcript

Megan:

On Season three of the podcast Doin' Girly Things, we are focusing on who is women and construction. And so this season we will go around and we'll interview different women within the construction space to learn about how they got into that field. And also what salary can you expect to make and also what other career opportunities are within that. So, today I have Peta and I'm super excited to have her on. She is living in Australia, she is a surveyor and she also has a really cool surveyor academy that she is starting up next year. And so all things surveying is the theme of today. I'm so happy to have you here, Peta. And so one thing I want you to get started whenever I was looking at your background was, how long have you actually been in serving? Cause it looks like you've been in it for quite a long time.

Peta:

Hi Megan! And yes, I've been in surveying for about 26 years now. So half of that is probably within the industry and the other half close to being on the educational side, delivering surveying to students teaching them.

Megan:

You've really seen a wide change of events go on within surveying. And so within that, what has been the biggest change between whatever you started and seen 25 years of the industry?

Peta:

The biggest thing that has changed is our technology, for sure! It's gone leaps and bounds since I started and I think now the surveying industry is a little more open to advertising and getting our profession out there. It never used to happen, so most people still don't know much about what surveying is, but we're working tirelessly behind the scenes to get it out there to the younger people because we're in a massive skills shortage and it's getting worse and worse, which is happening it seems across the globe, not just here in Australia. Trying to let the young people know that surveying is a great career, it's a profession that can take you anywhere, which a long time ago nobody really knew that.

Megan:

So what is surveying then? I guess like that is like a really good spot to start, because when I think of it, I think of this. There was one class in construction management and every single year you would see them out there with the tripods and all I really knew was like that was the surveying class. And so in my head that's what I think of about is surveying. So what would you describe as like, to younger people, is just like a broad overview, what is surveying?

Peta:

Surveying is... we are defining the land, we are defining boundaries. We are usually the first people on a site. If we're doing construction, any kind of renovations, we're usually the first people there picking up the flow of the land, helping the designers create what is going to be built on the land. And then we're the final people at the end of a job saying that everything is built correctly.

So we're sort of in a job from start to finish. It's defining what is there and being able to show people what you can do with that information.

Megan:

I guess I didn't realize that there was post construction surveying, and so is that to give as built to the client?

Peta:

Yeah, exactly. What happens is that, you know, we come in at the start, we pick up the flow of the land where the boundaries are, all that kind of stuff. And then that information will go off to the designers, engineers, architects, all that kind of stuff. They design everything. We go back, we set it out, we then check along the way as things are getting built. And this is in a construction sense.

And then once it's finished, we then come back and do the final as builts, in Australia, we do strata plan. So if we have got lots of units and things like that. So there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that happens as well.

Megan:

And so then who usually hold your contract, do you work under the client, the government or like the GC?

Peta:

It just depends how you doing the work for. You know, sometimes we'll be employed by the builder or the government or if it's just a small residential place, then it may just be the person that owns the block of land. So it really depends on what the job is and who has employed us.

Megan:

Whenever I think about a survey, I think about like the person that's walking in the field with the tripod and everything. So is that typically what a day looks like for a surver or what do they do once they get all the points out in the field.

Peta:

Depending on what the survey is, you may be using GPS, so you may be using your total stations in your robotics. We now use drones. Within our surveys. We have laser scanners. We have mobile laser scanners attached to cars. It just vary so much depending on what type of survey is actually needed. All of that information gets collected, goes back to the office, gets downloaded, gets manipulated, drawn up depending on what it is that the client needs at the end of it.

Megan:

Is so interesting that you say drones with surveying because whenever I looked surveying on intothepublic.com surveying with drones was the top search and so how do you use drones to help you survey?

Peta:

Well, depending on what equipment you've got, the drones are basically picking up information over a broader area so that you can create a topographical survey with the information. It's not going to be as accurate. So depending on the accuracy that you need within a survey would determine whether you'd use a drone or whether you'd have to go back to using your GPS or total station robotic, that sort of thing to do a survey.

But also sometimes you need photos of areas. Drones are used quite often to do stockpiles, measuring stockpiles and things like that.

Megan:

And so I guess I didn't realize that they weren't as accurate. What it about them makes it not as accurate.

Peta:

So when you're surveying, when you're using a a total station, electronic distance measuring machine, depending on what you're using, you have accuracy involved. So we can get millimeter, sub-millimeter, accuracy if we need to. When it comes to using a GPS or a drone, you talking about getting centimeter accuracy? So there's the differences in that. So, you know, if you're trying to set a boundary, then you wouldn't be using a drone or GPS to do that because you're not getting the accuracy that's needed.

Surveyors always work in accuracy. But depending on what the final outcome is would depend on what equipment you would use for that survey.

Megan:

And so then your accuracy is dependent based on the client's request. So then you decide what tool you're going to use for that job.

Peta:

Yeah, probably not so much the client requests, in a way, because most of the time clients don't actually know exactly what they want. As a surveyor, we have to ask the questions of the client to find out exactly what it is that they want to use that information for. And then we can guide them in the best way to do the survey.

Megan:

And so what's typical things clients would ask, just like what you were saying, like pre and post construction or what are typical things that clients are coming to you guys and asking?

Peta:

Yeah, it just really, really depends on who's asking you to do the survey. You know, if it's a small residential and they might be doing an extension on a house, then they might just want to know where their house is, but not realizing that they would need levels as well. And levels of the house is next door and the roof height and all that kind of stuff. Or we could be talking about a major road infrastructure or rail or something like that. So every survey is different as too what's required for it.

Megan:

And so what would a typical person expect to make with two to four years of experience in a survey? And let's say they're doing larger commercial infrastructure and so they're like going to bridges and doing working for like roads and stuff like that. What would you typically expect to see?

Peta:

Okay, so our pay structures within the surveying industry kinda relates a little bit to what qualifications you have. And then, as you said, years of experience. So we start at a technical level, which is basically our vocational education level where you come out with a diploma and when you start, you're anywhere around sort of maybe the $50,000 up to the 80, $90,000 range with experience. 

We then have graduate surveyors who they're the ones that go to university and do their four years and come out as a graduate. They start anywhere around year 70 and kinda work up to around maybe the the $100,000 mark and then as a graduate you can become a registered or licensed surveyor. There's a bit of a process in doing that. It's usually takes a maybe another three to four years to get registered sometimes even longer depending on on the experience that you get and they range anywhere between you sort of 120 to $150,000 on an average price range. You may be lucky to work for a company that pays you a bit more. Some people are unfortunate and get paid a little bit less.

So it's just kind of a guide as to those.

Megan:

Is there a union that you're working under or are you typically working under a company, or what's the typical employment structure that like, how does it work?

Peta:

Yeah so, we actually have a salary guide set by the government as to a minimum wage, so to speak. So, if you work in a certain industry, and that's not just in surveying either, you know, your plumbing, your electrical, your building, all that sort of stuff has a minimum wage that you have to be paid when you're working for a company. So you go to work for a company, you sign an agreement, a contract, to say that you're going to work for them, you've got a probation period, you're going to work on either an hourly rate or a salary of X amount of dollars for however many hours a week you go to work, it just goes through that way. So in surveyors as such, we don't have a union.

Megan:

And you said at the beginning, of the episode, you said there's a shortage of people with the skill. Yeah, we're seeing issues with just manpower in general, but what are you guys seen over there with labor shortages and surveyors?

Peta:

Because surveying is such a small profession in the sense that people don't really know or understand what surveying is and where they can go with having a surveying career. It's not widely known. So people know the plumbers, the electrical, the carpenters, the engineers even, but surveying really doesn't get mentioned. So we've been doing a massive push to get younger people into surveying because what we've found is that there's a lot of surveyors who are in their late sixties, seventies, sort of thing, and then the next flow coming through, maybe the average age of us tonight is 55, but then there's a massive gap. So a lot of the older registered surveyors are retiring and there's nobody to fill those gaps. We have our registered and licensed surveys are the ones who can actually sign plans to find boundaries. They're the ones that are responsible for all that sort of stuff. So it's both technical and registered surveyors, which is just a massive shortage where there's too much work and not enough people on the ground.

Megan:

And so is that where your Surveyor Academy comes into place where you're trying to get more young people where, I guess, how do you become a surveyor? Like you're saying, you can go to school for it, but not everyone goes to school for it. What is the requirements?

Peta:

So there are people working in the industry and have been working in the industry for quite a long time without doing any formal qualifications. Part of the academy is that we're going to try and get them qualified. The other part of the academy is that the vocational sector of Taif are putting students through, but there's a lot of students that they have to turn away. So we're just trying to make the areas that the vocational education sector can't meet. We've got people working in rural areas that are struggling to attend college because they're just too far away. So we're coming up with a way to be able to allow these students to work and study and not put them out, not to put the business out, that sort of thing. So filling a hole that they're at the moment to support industry.

Megan:

Because that is true to the not a lot of people can just quit their job and just go to a vocational school full time and not have to worry about any bills. So you do have to make it and meet people where they're at and offer these programs that way then they can go to these trainings with the potential of quitting their current career.

And so that is really important to be able to provide that to people within rural areas.

Peta:

Yeah, exactly. And in Australia is pretty big and there's only four campuses at the vocational level that deliver surveying. Otherwise you've got two universities in New South Wales, you know, there's only one or two across each state that are delivering the surveying program. So at that technical level we just want to try and support the people that need to work, want to get their qualifications, but just can't make it to a college to do it.

Megan:

And so you actually worked as a surveyor out in the field, so what advice would you give to somebody looking to go into the industry.

Peta:

Okay, so... You need to love the outdoors because you will be spending a lot of time outdoors. It's a really great career you get to spend time outdoors, you get to do a little bit of indoor stuff, you go to so many different places. Every day is always a new horizon of what you get to see, that the experiences are amazing. You might be doing the same type of survey, but you're doing it in a different place and you get to meet new people. And it's challenging. It is challenging. It's not hard, it's just challenging. It's a job that anybody can do as you can say 26 years in the industry. I've got a few friends who are female who are doing it as well. They're still out in the field and they absolutely love it.

Megan:

That's awesome! I love how you said you have to love the outdoors in order to do it. Do you have like the coolest place surveying that you've ever been, or just like any moment where you got to see the sunrise or the sunset like anything like that that you remember from being out in the field?

Peta:

Yeah, plenty of sunrises and sunsets, mine is actually not so long ago... I was lucky enough that I had to go and do some chick surveys and pick some information up for a job that I was project managing and it was on the Murrumbidgee River and I had to take my paddle board, I had to take a canoe, and I had some GPS and sonar and I had to work it all out and go to these places on the river that, were nobody else was around and got all the elements. But it was challenging, but it was also really, really enjoyable.

Megan:

That's pretty cool that you had the canoe out there and everything.

Peta:

It was probably one of the best experiences I've had in my career. There's been plenty of others and knowing that, you know, you drive past a building, you know, you helped build that.

Megan:

And so what makes you most passionate about surveying in the construction atmosphere?

Peta:

It's the satisfaction of knowing that you have helped build something that is going to be there for a while, being a part of a bigger, a bigger picture as well. It's a satisfaction thing.

Megan:

Also, with you saying you're one of the first in the last people on the job site, you see the job site before anything's ever done. To the land, you know, is still a cornfield or forest or whatever it is. And then you come back a year and a half later and there's all this infrastructure on it. 

Peta:

Yes! One of the places I did not long after I first started surveying, after I got my qualification was building part of a motorway and doing all the quality assurance on it and working with the surveyors that were doing all the set out and making sure that it was all good and everything and that was 20, 26 years ago. Now I get to drive along that road and go, I help build this road. And that's the major infrastructure piece of road, which is pretty cool. Yeah.

Megan:

Exactly. And it's cool to like feel yourself as part of that bigger picture and really do see how you do impact everything because like there's all these different little pieces that have to come together in order to make construction work. And surveying is a very important piece of that. 

And so I want to do a speed round of questions. So whenever I looked up surveying, there's actually a lot of common questions that people have. And so I have about eight questions and I just want to see if you can answer them. 

Peta:

All right, hit me. 

Megan:

Can a surveyor come on to your property?

Peta:

Legally? Yes, they can. And now you do need to be a registered surveyor under the act. But you also, there is a lot of things in play, when you go on to a somebody's property, you want to knock on the door and ask them first. You can't, you know, just walking on his property. And in America, it's probably not a very good idea. I hear, I hear and read that there's a lot of people that walk out with guns. We don't have that so much here, but most people are pretty good.

Megan:

Yeah, I would be a little nervous us to do that here. Can a surveyor work during lockdown?

Peta:

Yes, we have been. And it depends on where you're working we've had a lot of different rules going on, but we have been classed as an essential worker in Australia, in New South Wales and most the lockdown has been in Victoria and New South Wales. So we've been classed as essential workers. You've got to have permits, you've got to get tested, all that kind of stuff.

But yes, we're still working.

Megan:

Can surveyors make a mistake?

Peta:

*laughes* If you ask them, they might say no. Yes, we make mistakes. The most important thing is checking your work and fix the mistakes before you pass on to the client.

Megan:

How do you pick a surveyor?

Peta:

Don't pick the cheapest. 

I guess the first thing I would say would be to check with the association. So the survey is in your area. If you are working with surveyors that are part of an association, then they are being responsible. They're understanding what's involved. They're not the one man band who's trying to cut everybody out of patrol with the cheap prices and stuff like that. The biggest problem that surveyors have is that they just keep dropping prices to get a job and sometimes they cut corners to do that.

Megan:

Then you run. The risk that I've seen is where you make the market price so low that then nobody can really make a business out of it because everyone's undercutting everybody else.

Peta:

I've heard of a surveyor charging for a survey of a price that would have been charged ten or more years ago, which is crazy, silly they're not realizing they're worth.

Megan:

Well, that and what it does to the overall market of because I think they're just winning one bid. But what you're doing is you're really affecting the whole market by changing the going rate.

Peta:

I've had a friend who has a surveying company who's worked for this big construction company for years and years and years, and all of a sudden I went with another surveying company because they were cheaper and they've come crawling back with their tail between their legs because these other companies completely stuffed up their job and they now need them to fix it for them.

You know, it's about knowing who you're hiring, speaking to other people that kind of stuff.

Megan:

Yeah. Are surveyors self-employed?

Peta:

They can be. You know, some surveyors work on their own. They have their own small business and then there's others who are happy to work for a company. We have some really, really great companies here that support the surveyors, you know, provide professional development for them, allow them to do learning where they are bettering themselves. But in the meantime, they're also bettering the company for.

Megan:

That's awesome, and will a surveyor mark property lines?

Peta:

A registered surveyor. Yes. Or licensed surveyor. Yes. We have technical surveyors who can do it, are quite capable of doing it, but they have to be under the supervision of a licensed or registered surveyor. And it is the responsibility of the licensed or registered surveyor to sign off on what has been put in the ground.

Megan:

So there's a lot of responsibility for the licensed surveyor.

Peta:

Yes. Yes, there is. The buck stops with them, basically.

Megan:

This next question... I looked of the answer to see what Google's was. Well, I'm curious to see what you say when was surveying invented?

Peta:

Oh, we're one of the first professions ever invented. We have been around since before Egypt.

Megan:

It the Internet said 14 B.C. The earliest known practices were the Egyptians.

Peta:

Yeah. There you go.

Megan:

Yeah. Before that, probably. Next question will surveyors check for asbestos?

Peta:

That's not a surveyor's job. If you were a building surveyor, that would be part of their job. But a land surveyor is different to a building surveyor. So we may be on a job where we think there may be asbestos and we would let the project manager know. But that's not our job to determine asbestos.

Megan:

Very interesting. That's all my speed round of questions. That was actually pretty good. So last, before we leave, I have these best self cards and I really enjoy using them to wrap up the podcast and so the two categories that I picked for us were dreams or self awareness.

Peta:

Let's go self awareness.

Megan:

How do you best receive criticism?

Peta:

Ohhh... People don't like being criticized. Do they?

Megan:

No, no, they do. I'm still learning this one.

Peta:

Look, I think as you, as you grow and as you learn more about yourself, you realize that you don't know everything and that you may make mistakes and that you're always learning. So if you can take criticism as a way of learning and growing, then you're going to be a better person. And it's not easy. You know, it's not nice somebody telling you you're doing something wrong. But if you can take that in your stride and learn from it, then you're going to be a better person.

Megan:

Yeah, I would agree with that. And I would agree also taking it and not reacting as soon as somebody gives it to you, I think is is what I am trying to learn is is learning the criticism and then, you know, not immediately having to fire back and say something to that person. Just digesting it first is, yes.

Peta:

Digest it, take a breath, count to ten, look at the whole situation, maybe learn to ask relevant questions before biting someone's head off.

Megan:

Exactly. Exactly. And so, well, thank you for coming on to the podcast. And I learned so much today about surveying all the different ways that you can use it and where can we find you and all the cool things that you're doing.

Peta:

Yeah, okay. So you can find me on Instagram at SurveyGeekGirl and also at DefiningBoundaries as I have a podcast as well, which is about surveyors. It's about surveyors who are telling their story, how they got to surveying, where they are now, all the things that have happened to them in their in their careers, which is really interesting for people who are thinking about getting into the industry. So I have my main Instagram account and you can find me on LinkedIn at Peta Cox.

Megan:

Awesome, awesome. And I'll link all of the below so you can make sure you find Peta. And thank you for coming on. It was such a pleasure.

PetA:

Thanks for having me, Megan. It's been good. I've enjoyed it.

Megan:

Thank you.

Peta:

And if I can get the word of surveying out there to everybody, then I've done my job.